Thursday, June 30, 2011
Wednesday, June 29, 2011
Why do we marry?
Well, with all this talk of gay marriage/gay divorce I have been asked the question - from someone who chose not to marry - Why do we marry? Here is my answer.
There are many, many reasons - financial, social, etc - some of which go back to the caveman (caveperson) days but still play out in our biology and brain chemistry. I believe that good marriages have a purpose. And, when that purpose is accomplished its important that a couple find/create another purpose or the marriage gets stale. (Stale to me means the bond/the connection rots out and dies.) Of course many marriages start out with the purpose of creating or raising a family. I was at a seminar recently and the presenter said "mammels soothe in pairs." That remark really made sense to me. Life is tough. In my mind, when a marriage provides a place to be soothed the marriage is a success. The human need for connection is met in marriage. HOWEVER, marriage is difficult and being married to the wrong person (who is unsafe versus soothing) is torture. Whats the difference? In the animal kingdom when an animal feels under threat it will fight, flight, freeze, or submit. If someone is engaging in those behaviors in their marriage its a red flag. When animals feel safe/soothed they play, eat, relax, mate. So why do we marry? To create an envirnment where we will be able to play, eat, relax, and mate. And, whats the payout - support, synergy (1+1>2), sex and soothing.
There are many, many reasons - financial, social, etc - some of which go back to the caveman (caveperson) days but still play out in our biology and brain chemistry. I believe that good marriages have a purpose. And, when that purpose is accomplished its important that a couple find/create another purpose or the marriage gets stale. (Stale to me means the bond/the connection rots out and dies.) Of course many marriages start out with the purpose of creating or raising a family. I was at a seminar recently and the presenter said "mammels soothe in pairs." That remark really made sense to me. Life is tough. In my mind, when a marriage provides a place to be soothed the marriage is a success. The human need for connection is met in marriage. HOWEVER, marriage is difficult and being married to the wrong person (who is unsafe versus soothing) is torture. Whats the difference? In the animal kingdom when an animal feels under threat it will fight, flight, freeze, or submit. If someone is engaging in those behaviors in their marriage its a red flag. When animals feel safe/soothed they play, eat, relax, mate. So why do we marry? To create an envirnment where we will be able to play, eat, relax, and mate. And, whats the payout - support, synergy (1+1>2), sex and soothing.
Saturday, June 25, 2011
Thoughts On Gay Marriage, Gay Divorce, Straight Marriage, Straight Divorce
Gay Marriage, gay divorce. Straight marriage, straight divorce. Here are my random thoughts.
1. CNN is a-buzz today about gay marriage in NY. But, all I can think of is the mess that the NY courts are in and the dysfunctional way they look at divorce. Now, they will have both gay and straight couples trapped in their divorce web.
2. Sadly, because the right to marry was withheld for so long and felt so unattainable, now that marriage is a legal option, some gay people will run to the alter like starvation dieters ready for the binge. And, rushing marriage is usually a recipe for ending up in the quick sand of the divorce maze.
3. Gay or straight, if you are about to enter into marriage please consider creating a pre-nuptial agreement or Marriage Pact with your partner. The exercise of creating an agreement provides benefits beyond legal protection or divorce planning. A pre-nuptial agreement or Marriage Pact will clarify expectations and give you information about how you are going to handle issues in the future. Now should be the time you work best together so if you cannot sit down and create an agreement it is a BIG red flag.
4. I recently saw an on-line discussion about the reasons people get divorced. The question asked was "What's the KEY reason for divorce?" The questioner then proposed "communication problems, infidelity, falling out of love/no more chemistry, drifting apart, stuck and not sure what else to do, incompatibility, resignation or gave up, sexual issues, and none of the above." While I often point to mismatch, unmet expectations, addiction, and lack of team-playing as the cause of a divorce I believe that the underlying reason marriages end is that they are not safe havens. Couples who criticize instead of soothe one another are on a divorce track. Couples who know how to support one another have kid, money, sex, in-law, and chore problems also. But, they know how to work through them.
5. "Fault" laws dont cut down on divorce. But, they do make divorces much uglier. On the other hand, I do like waiting periods for both divorce and for marriage. However, as I see it the only way to cut down on divorces is to make it harder to get married. If couples had to go through something like the Amazing Race TV show a lot of people would think twice before becoming legally bound.
6. John Gottman - the guru of marriage survival - says "there are four major emotional reactions that are destructive to a marriage: defensiveness, stonewalling, criticism, and contempt...." see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gottman. These are the behaviors that eat away at the connection/the bond.
7. My friend Penny says marriages end because people change and expectations change. I would add purpose to this equation - especially in long-term marriages. A couple comes together with a purpose in mind. They accomplish that purpose (or not) and then they must find a new purpose or their marriage becomes stale.
8. Legalizing gay marriage is going to create a lot more work for divorce professionals. There is no one-size-fits-all process for couples transitioning through divorce. If you are a divorce service professional, a lawyer, or a mediator and you want to expand or launch your practice into the ProSe/PreSuit (self-represented parties) market take a look at our training program - Friendly Divorce Training
1. CNN is a-buzz today about gay marriage in NY. But, all I can think of is the mess that the NY courts are in and the dysfunctional way they look at divorce. Now, they will have both gay and straight couples trapped in their divorce web.
2. Sadly, because the right to marry was withheld for so long and felt so unattainable, now that marriage is a legal option, some gay people will run to the alter like starvation dieters ready for the binge. And, rushing marriage is usually a recipe for ending up in the quick sand of the divorce maze.
3. Gay or straight, if you are about to enter into marriage please consider creating a pre-nuptial agreement or Marriage Pact with your partner. The exercise of creating an agreement provides benefits beyond legal protection or divorce planning. A pre-nuptial agreement or Marriage Pact will clarify expectations and give you information about how you are going to handle issues in the future. Now should be the time you work best together so if you cannot sit down and create an agreement it is a BIG red flag.
4. I recently saw an on-line discussion about the reasons people get divorced. The question asked was "What's the KEY reason for divorce?" The questioner then proposed "communication problems, infidelity, falling out of love/no more chemistry, drifting apart, stuck and not sure what else to do, incompatibility, resignation or gave up, sexual issues, and none of the above." While I often point to mismatch, unmet expectations, addiction, and lack of team-playing as the cause of a divorce I believe that the underlying reason marriages end is that they are not safe havens. Couples who criticize instead of soothe one another are on a divorce track. Couples who know how to support one another have kid, money, sex, in-law, and chore problems also. But, they know how to work through them.
5. "Fault" laws dont cut down on divorce. But, they do make divorces much uglier. On the other hand, I do like waiting periods for both divorce and for marriage. However, as I see it the only way to cut down on divorces is to make it harder to get married. If couples had to go through something like the Amazing Race TV show a lot of people would think twice before becoming legally bound.
6. John Gottman - the guru of marriage survival - says "there are four major emotional reactions that are destructive to a marriage: defensiveness, stonewalling, criticism, and contempt...." see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gottman. These are the behaviors that eat away at the connection/the bond.
7. My friend Penny says marriages end because people change and expectations change. I would add purpose to this equation - especially in long-term marriages. A couple comes together with a purpose in mind. They accomplish that purpose (or not) and then they must find a new purpose or their marriage becomes stale.
8. Legalizing gay marriage is going to create a lot more work for divorce professionals. There is no one-size-fits-all process for couples transitioning through divorce. If you are a divorce service professional, a lawyer, or a mediator and you want to expand or launch your practice into the ProSe/PreSuit (self-represented parties) market take a look at our training program - Friendly Divorce Training
Tuesday, June 14, 2011
Building My Practice
Dear Elinor,
As you know I am a PhD level therapist currently working for a non-profit. I'm Certified in Play Therapy. I want to leave the agency and start a private practice. I have several options for office space. I'd like to do some mediation and parent coordination also but I don't feel comfortable doing that alone. I'd much prefer to co-mediate or co-parenting coordinate. Is that possible? What do u suggest?
Tara
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tara,
First and foremost focus on building the therapy practice. Get a niche and make yourself an expert in that niche. A hot issue - for years to come - will be families with autistic children. If you want to expand into PC, talk to Allyson Tomchin. She is a coach and a parenting co-ordinator. See if she will coach you in building a PC practice. Focus on the mediation practice last as it will be the most difficult to build. Sadly, lawyers will probably not choose you as a mediator. But, unrepresented parties will. If you want to build a mediation practice focused on unrepresented couples take my Friendly Divorce Training
When it comes to private practice the bottom line is marketing. Are you willing to go out there and sell? If not, keep your job. If you are, then do research and start building before you go. You may not be able to get on insurance panels and even if you can you will soon find that the managed care system is abusive to the therapist and the client.
Here are some questions to consider:
1. What are your greatest gifts (or greatest strengths)? What do you see as your greatest challenges in building and maintaining your private practice? How are the answers to these two questions related?
2. Beyond Therapy. Imagine that the words therapy, therapist, psychologist, psychology, counselor, and social worker do not exist. So when you are asked “what do you do?” what do you answer?
3. It’s your lucky day. I can lend you my magic wand. The wand will allow you to magically create a steady stream of perfect clients. With the wave of the wand, people in your target demographic audience will be incredibly receptive to your ideas and offers of help. But, there is a catch. You must be able to describe your perfect client with at least seven very specific characteristics. Only then will members of that group be located and brought to you. So give me seven real specifics of the people in your target demographic group. Be specific so that they stand out; otherwise you get burnt out talking to the wrong people.
4. Problem ID. Now that you know who is in your target market. Identify the top 10 problems people in your target market face daily or regularly.
Elinor
As you know I am a PhD level therapist currently working for a non-profit. I'm Certified in Play Therapy. I want to leave the agency and start a private practice. I have several options for office space. I'd like to do some mediation and parent coordination also but I don't feel comfortable doing that alone. I'd much prefer to co-mediate or co-parenting coordinate. Is that possible? What do u suggest?
Tara
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tara,
First and foremost focus on building the therapy practice. Get a niche and make yourself an expert in that niche. A hot issue - for years to come - will be families with autistic children. If you want to expand into PC, talk to Allyson Tomchin. She is a coach and a parenting co-ordinator. See if she will coach you in building a PC practice. Focus on the mediation practice last as it will be the most difficult to build. Sadly, lawyers will probably not choose you as a mediator. But, unrepresented parties will. If you want to build a mediation practice focused on unrepresented couples take my Friendly Divorce Training
When it comes to private practice the bottom line is marketing. Are you willing to go out there and sell? If not, keep your job. If you are, then do research and start building before you go. You may not be able to get on insurance panels and even if you can you will soon find that the managed care system is abusive to the therapist and the client.
Here are some questions to consider:
1. What are your greatest gifts (or greatest strengths)? What do you see as your greatest challenges in building and maintaining your private practice? How are the answers to these two questions related?
2. Beyond Therapy. Imagine that the words therapy, therapist, psychologist, psychology, counselor, and social worker do not exist. So when you are asked “what do you do?” what do you answer?
3. It’s your lucky day. I can lend you my magic wand. The wand will allow you to magically create a steady stream of perfect clients. With the wave of the wand, people in your target demographic audience will be incredibly receptive to your ideas and offers of help. But, there is a catch. You must be able to describe your perfect client with at least seven very specific characteristics. Only then will members of that group be located and brought to you. So give me seven real specifics of the people in your target demographic group. Be specific so that they stand out; otherwise you get burnt out talking to the wrong people.
4. Problem ID. Now that you know who is in your target market. Identify the top 10 problems people in your target market face daily or regularly.
Elinor
Alimoney Question
I started going through old emails to find questions that would be appropriate to answer on this blog. Here's one:
Dear Elinor,
My wife and I have divided our assets, we have a plan for sharing time with our children, and know what we want to do about money after out divorce. But we have not put anything in writing. Our 10th anniversary is coming up in a few months. I have heard that after 10 years I will have to pay more. Is this true?
Richard (name changed)
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Richard,
Answering this question - for you individually would be giving legal advice - which I don't do. But, I can tell you that the Florida Statutes (http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/Chapter61/All - scroll down to 61.08 to read about alimony specifically) call a marriage under 7 years a short term marriage, a marriage between 7 and 17 years a marriage of moderate duration, and a marriage over 17 years a long term marriage. I am not sure where you got the 10 year number from. The length of the marriage is one of the factors that a judge could consider when determining alimony. However, in mediation a couple can agree to just about anything regarding alimony. Where I try to focus couples is on need and ability to pay. So we start off by looking at income and expenses. In addition to the amount, I also want couples to discuss and agree on the duration of the alimony, under what circumstances it would terminate, and if it will be modifiable or not.
Best, Elinor
Dear Elinor,
My wife and I have divided our assets, we have a plan for sharing time with our children, and know what we want to do about money after out divorce. But we have not put anything in writing. Our 10th anniversary is coming up in a few months. I have heard that after 10 years I will have to pay more. Is this true?
Richard (name changed)
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Richard,
Answering this question - for you individually would be giving legal advice - which I don't do. But, I can tell you that the Florida Statutes (http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/Chapter61/All - scroll down to 61.08 to read about alimony specifically) call a marriage under 7 years a short term marriage, a marriage between 7 and 17 years a marriage of moderate duration, and a marriage over 17 years a long term marriage. I am not sure where you got the 10 year number from. The length of the marriage is one of the factors that a judge could consider when determining alimony. However, in mediation a couple can agree to just about anything regarding alimony. Where I try to focus couples is on need and ability to pay. So we start off by looking at income and expenses. In addition to the amount, I also want couples to discuss and agree on the duration of the alimony, under what circumstances it would terminate, and if it will be modifiable or not.
Best, Elinor
Association of Norh Central Florida Mediators
My friends Linda Chapman, Martha Johnston, and I are contemplating starting a monthly luncheon group - loosely modeled after the Association of South Florida Mediators and Arbitrators - for local mediators in and around Gainesville. We'd call it the Association of North Central Florida Mediators (or something like that). Our kick-off meeting is scheduled for Tuesday July 12 at noon at the Northwest Grille in Gainesville. Can you make it?
Sunday, June 12, 2011
How I got here. Where I'm going. And more stories.
Twenty-two years ago, in 1989, I received a gift that changed my life. I was allowed to participate in a mediation training program that was offered by Leslie Ratliff, who was then the Director of Palm Beach County's Court Mediation Program. (Thank you Leslie.) At the time, I was in my mid 30s, a single parent who had recently returned to college to get a degree and figure out what my next (career) step should be. Except for me, all of the trainees were already doing some mediation as volunteers in the Palm Beach County small claims court program. All of the other 29 trainees were at least twenty years older then I was. Twenty eight of them were men - old white guys I like to call them - retired lawyers and businessmen - who needed something to do besides play golf. One was a woman - I'll call her Elaine. (She asked that I not include her real name here.)
Elaine has children who are about as old as I am and so we've always been at different phases of life. But, we live in the same city, share a strong commitment to the process and practice of mediation, and our paths have crossed many times. Clearly, we are members of each others professional circles. Elaine is old enough to be my mother but you would never know that by looking at her. And, I am not just talking about her physical features. She is the epitome of well-grooming; possessing the energy and style of a much younger woman.
Recently I sent out one of my "quarterly" newsletters. In the Random Thoughts section I wrote:
The reality of aging. Sadly, a Betty White old age may not be an option for most of us. What can we do now to better prepare for the future?
Here is what Elaine wrote me in response:
In a message dated 6/10/2011 3:41:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, NotReallyElaine@gmail.com writes:
Dear Elinor
Up until now I have not had any reason to respond to your informative Emails, but you hit me right where I should be, AGING. Believe it or not I am joining the Octogenarian membership and as you know, as active as I have been, I am truly in the Betty White category.
For your members and info, nothing gets you there except you. Doing what you can to help become you is totally up to the YOU.
For the past 20 plus years, I never cared how old I was or going to be. I just did what was necessary to be a successful part of society and added to my life work, in my case mediation, new and more educational programs. When one finds reasons to do whatever it takes to help others, truly their life has much more meaning. I feel I am rambling on but that comes with age and aging.
Until now, whenever someone questioned my age, I never let it out, I hear OH you look wonderful etc. But my purpose in writing this is to tell you, my friend how good I feel about what I have done and continue doing not how I look. Life has much to offer those who take advantage of it and I am there.
Keep in touch as I know you will.
Luv Elaine
Here is my response to her:
Yes, you are in the Betty White category. Well, you look better than she does. But, you have her energy and spirit. For the rest of us, a Betty White future is probably not in the cards. Look around at your friends. How many other women in your age range look/act like you? None. While your girlfriends were otherwise preoccupied (shopping?) you were the only woman in the old white guys mediator fraternity. So in more ways then one you are the exception to the rule.
Should we (the generation after yours) make believe we will all be 80 and running around like you? I dont know if this denial is a good thing. Would it be better, instead, to stop making believe, start planning, and face the fact that we will be decrepit for an extended period? Well, until I figure this out I am going to do what you said, shut-up and keep working.
Happy Trails, Love, Elinor
Elaine has children who are about as old as I am and so we've always been at different phases of life. But, we live in the same city, share a strong commitment to the process and practice of mediation, and our paths have crossed many times. Clearly, we are members of each others professional circles. Elaine is old enough to be my mother but you would never know that by looking at her. And, I am not just talking about her physical features. She is the epitome of well-grooming; possessing the energy and style of a much younger woman.
Recently I sent out one of my "quarterly" newsletters. In the Random Thoughts section I wrote:
The reality of aging. Sadly, a Betty White old age may not be an option for most of us. What can we do now to better prepare for the future?
Here is what Elaine wrote me in response:
In a message dated 6/10/2011 3:41:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, NotReallyElaine@gmail.com writes:
Dear Elinor
Up until now I have not had any reason to respond to your informative Emails, but you hit me right where I should be, AGING. Believe it or not I am joining the Octogenarian membership and as you know, as active as I have been, I am truly in the Betty White category.
For your members and info, nothing gets you there except you. Doing what you can to help become you is totally up to the YOU.
For the past 20 plus years, I never cared how old I was or going to be. I just did what was necessary to be a successful part of society and added to my life work, in my case mediation, new and more educational programs. When one finds reasons to do whatever it takes to help others, truly their life has much more meaning. I feel I am rambling on but that comes with age and aging.
Until now, whenever someone questioned my age, I never let it out, I hear OH you look wonderful etc. But my purpose in writing this is to tell you, my friend how good I feel about what I have done and continue doing not how I look. Life has much to offer those who take advantage of it and I am there.
Keep in touch as I know you will.
Luv Elaine
Here is my response to her:
Yes, you are in the Betty White category. Well, you look better than she does. But, you have her energy and spirit. For the rest of us, a Betty White future is probably not in the cards. Look around at your friends. How many other women in your age range look/act like you? None. While your girlfriends were otherwise preoccupied (shopping?) you were the only woman in the old white guys mediator fraternity. So in more ways then one you are the exception to the rule.
Should we (the generation after yours) make believe we will all be 80 and running around like you? I dont know if this denial is a good thing. Would it be better, instead, to stop making believe, start planning, and face the fact that we will be decrepit for an extended period? Well, until I figure this out I am going to do what you said, shut-up and keep working.
Happy Trails, Love, Elinor
Friday, June 10, 2011
Intro Redux
I am a mediator and mediation trainer based in Florida. As part of Mediation Training Group I teach Florida Supreme Court Certified Civil and Family mediation training programs and Continuing Mediator Education. My own mediation practice is focused on ProSe/PreSuit divorce. (Cases where the divorcing couple goes through the process without retaining attorneys. They may consult with attorneys but they do not hire attorneys.) I am now teaching other mediators our unique marketing and practice methods. Upcoming training programs are scheduled for Florida, Las Vegas, and Atlanta. If you want to launch or expand your own divorce mediation practice within this emerging market niche take a look at www.FriendlyDivorceTraining.com.
Thursday, June 9, 2011
Email Communique
Greetings!
Sometimes it seems to me that the world is changing so fast it's impossible to keep up with the pace. Ten years ago there was no social media. Today, technology allows each of us to create a global network. But, for those of us who are immigrants in the digital world, it's often a stretch to stay current. The following was my most recent attempt at staying connected with the 5000 people - most of them former mediation students - that are on my email list.
The Evolution of Divorce
I believe the family law arena is ripe for a revolution. Ten years from now lawyer-driven divorces will be the exception not the rule. Financial shifts and technological advances have sped up the evolutionary process. There is a need for professionals who are able to usher couples through the divorce process using a more humane approach. So, in addition to my work with Susan and Mediation Training Group, I have put together a new training program for professionals who want to launch their practices into the ProSe/PreSuit market and serve couples who want to divorce without retaining attorneys.
Friendly Divorce Mediation Training
If you (or someone you know) is ready to take your career in a different direction and interested in offering a unique service to families in transition then visit Friendly Divorce Training We are offering 16-hour training programs in
Boca Raton on July 8-10, 2011
Las Vegas on Sept 2-4, 2011 and,
Atlanta on Dec 2-4, 2011
This is a rare opportunity for professionals who want to launch ProSe/PreSuit divorce mediation practices. David and I will share everything we have learned about this emerging market and give you the foundation you need to build your own business. The program is approved for 15.50 hours of CLER by the Florida Bar and will also provide 16 hours of CME for Mediators.
Random Thoughts
I am interested in any feedback you have on this blog. And, I am especially curious about your thoughts on these three topics:
The reality of aging. Sadly, a Betty White old age may not be an option for most of us. What can we do now to better prepare for the future?
The state of the union. During one of my recent rants, a friend of mine - a historian - commented that "the more things change, the more they stay the same - after all, the early settlers were a mix of gluttonous pillagers and exploited religious extremists." What can each of us do today to be part of the force that moves the country in a better direction?
The immigration debate. No matter what your opinion on the immigration debate I think we can all agree that we need some form of immigration reform. I believe that the mediation process just might be a key component to finding a plan that works for all of us. What do you think?
Sometimes it seems to me that the world is changing so fast it's impossible to keep up with the pace. Ten years ago there was no social media. Today, technology allows each of us to create a global network. But, for those of us who are immigrants in the digital world, it's often a stretch to stay current. The following was my most recent attempt at staying connected with the 5000 people - most of them former mediation students - that are on my email list.
The Evolution of Divorce
I believe the family law arena is ripe for a revolution. Ten years from now lawyer-driven divorces will be the exception not the rule. Financial shifts and technological advances have sped up the evolutionary process. There is a need for professionals who are able to usher couples through the divorce process using a more humane approach. So, in addition to my work with Susan and Mediation Training Group, I have put together a new training program for professionals who want to launch their practices into the ProSe/PreSuit market and serve couples who want to divorce without retaining attorneys.
Friendly Divorce Mediation Training
If you (or someone you know) is ready to take your career in a different direction and interested in offering a unique service to families in transition then visit Friendly Divorce Training We are offering 16-hour training programs in
Boca Raton on July 8-10, 2011
Las Vegas on Sept 2-4, 2011 and,
Atlanta on Dec 2-4, 2011
This is a rare opportunity for professionals who want to launch ProSe/PreSuit divorce mediation practices. David and I will share everything we have learned about this emerging market and give you the foundation you need to build your own business. The program is approved for 15.50 hours of CLER by the Florida Bar and will also provide 16 hours of CME for Mediators.
Random Thoughts
I am interested in any feedback you have on this blog. And, I am especially curious about your thoughts on these three topics:
The reality of aging. Sadly, a Betty White old age may not be an option for most of us. What can we do now to better prepare for the future?
The state of the union. During one of my recent rants, a friend of mine - a historian - commented that "the more things change, the more they stay the same - after all, the early settlers were a mix of gluttonous pillagers and exploited religious extremists." What can each of us do today to be part of the force that moves the country in a better direction?
The immigration debate. No matter what your opinion on the immigration debate I think we can all agree that we need some form of immigration reform. I believe that the mediation process just might be a key component to finding a plan that works for all of us. What do you think?
Reigniting
Holy Moley. Its exactly one year - to the day, since I last blogged on this site. Life is hectic and moves fast. I know that a lot has changed since last year but I cannot list those changes off the top of my head - they just whirl by. Today David told me he's noticed that I spend a lot of time responding to emails. He is correct. And, with time moving so fast and so much to do it seems a waste to spend that kind of time without reaching the largest audience. So this blog is being reignited and will be used for recording writings that would otherwise be lost.
Here goes. This is a conversation I had today with a local lawyer about the differences between Collaborative Law and our Friendly Divorce process.
Elinor:
You know that there are attorneys who believe in the concept of Friendly Divorce (especially myself). I am not sure that marketing your Friendly Divorce program with the spin of "using lawyers for divorces will be the exception, not the norm" is the best or proper approach. Having gone through a very difficult and expensive divorce (for a divorce that really should have been quite simple), I have some of my own ideas of how to improve the divorce process and system that I am implementing in my own practice. Also, if you are offering attorney CLE credit to a program that is designed to eliminate the lawyer, I think you have a major inconsistency. Let me know if you would like to discuss further.
Regards,
Paul (name changed)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Elinorobin@aol.com [mailto:Elinorobin@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 2:58 PM
To: Paul
Subject: Re: Divorce Revolution
I hear you. And, you make a very interesting point. As I see it there is a difference between a lawyer-driven divorce and using lawyers as consultants. My quote is "Ten years from now lawyer-driven divorces will be the exception not the rule." Clearly, there is no one size fits all process for divorcing couples. Right now a lot of people dont have the resources or desire to pay divorce attorneys and doing it themselves is not an option. My method offers another choice. As you know, the legal services world is changing - very quickly - so those who figure out how to meet the public's changing demands will survive and thrive. Others (as we have already seen) will fall by the way side.
I am so passionate about this that I always want to discuss further.
Best, Elinor
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 6/9/2011 3:14:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Paul writes:
Are you familiar with Collaborative Divorce?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Elinorobin@aol.com [mailto:Elinorobin@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:17 PM
To: Paul
Subject: Re: Divorce Revolution
Yes. Great idea but its a difficult sell and can be very expensive. Maybe not as expensive as hiring two pit bulls but still costly. There is no one size fits all. The more options you can offer the bigger the net you cast.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 6/9/2011 4:05:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Paul writes:
Define costly.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would say $6000. A lot of people dont have $6000 or dont want to spend the $6000 they have. These are unusual times. We are seeing people living in million dollar houses with negative net worths. Some still have decent incomes but they have committed every cent they make. And, $6000 is a totally bare bones divorce with two lawyers involved. In addition, they are also looking at divorce coaches - which are a key part of the process for Collaborative purists plus a financial expert. I think its difficult to have a Collaborative divorce for under $10K. Do you think that is far off the mark?
If someone doesnt know how much there is or where it is they need a lawyer to check things out. No doubt about it. But, if one believes that s/he is knowledgeable about the finances, even if they dont want to pay a lawyer to "discover," the lawyer still needs some level of investigation to protect him/herself if the lawyer is retained. (That is why I like the idea of using lawyers as consultants).
But, money aside, the bottom line is there is a whole generation of people who lived through their parents' divorces and saw the legal system divide and destroy their families. Many of these people are afraid of using lawyers for family problems. They are demanding another process. Some will embrace the collaborative model, others will not.
BTW, a friend of mine (a lawyer) on the West coast (FL) spent $80K on his no-children Collaborative divorce. The Collaborative process gives the un-monied, divorce resistant spouse a huge advantage. My friend was the monied spouse who wanted out. His wife was able to drag things out until he couldn't take it anymore and caved - on everything.
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Here goes. This is a conversation I had today with a local lawyer about the differences between Collaborative Law and our Friendly Divorce process.
Elinor:
You know that there are attorneys who believe in the concept of Friendly Divorce (especially myself). I am not sure that marketing your Friendly Divorce program with the spin of "using lawyers for divorces will be the exception, not the norm" is the best or proper approach. Having gone through a very difficult and expensive divorce (for a divorce that really should have been quite simple), I have some of my own ideas of how to improve the divorce process and system that I am implementing in my own practice. Also, if you are offering attorney CLE credit to a program that is designed to eliminate the lawyer, I think you have a major inconsistency. Let me know if you would like to discuss further.
Regards,
Paul (name changed)
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From: Elinorobin@aol.com [mailto:Elinorobin@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 2:58 PM
To: Paul
Subject: Re: Divorce Revolution
I hear you. And, you make a very interesting point. As I see it there is a difference between a lawyer-driven divorce and using lawyers as consultants. My quote is "Ten years from now lawyer-driven divorces will be the exception not the rule." Clearly, there is no one size fits all process for divorcing couples. Right now a lot of people dont have the resources or desire to pay divorce attorneys and doing it themselves is not an option. My method offers another choice. As you know, the legal services world is changing - very quickly - so those who figure out how to meet the public's changing demands will survive and thrive. Others (as we have already seen) will fall by the way side.
I am so passionate about this that I always want to discuss further.
Best, Elinor
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In a message dated 6/9/2011 3:14:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Paul writes:
Are you familiar with Collaborative Divorce?
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From: Elinorobin@aol.com [mailto:Elinorobin@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:17 PM
To: Paul
Subject: Re: Divorce Revolution
Yes. Great idea but its a difficult sell and can be very expensive. Maybe not as expensive as hiring two pit bulls but still costly. There is no one size fits all. The more options you can offer the bigger the net you cast.
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In a message dated 6/9/2011 4:05:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Paul writes:
Define costly.
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I would say $6000. A lot of people dont have $6000 or dont want to spend the $6000 they have. These are unusual times. We are seeing people living in million dollar houses with negative net worths. Some still have decent incomes but they have committed every cent they make. And, $6000 is a totally bare bones divorce with two lawyers involved. In addition, they are also looking at divorce coaches - which are a key part of the process for Collaborative purists plus a financial expert. I think its difficult to have a Collaborative divorce for under $10K. Do you think that is far off the mark?
If someone doesnt know how much there is or where it is they need a lawyer to check things out. No doubt about it. But, if one believes that s/he is knowledgeable about the finances, even if they dont want to pay a lawyer to "discover," the lawyer still needs some level of investigation to protect him/herself if the lawyer is retained. (That is why I like the idea of using lawyers as consultants).
But, money aside, the bottom line is there is a whole generation of people who lived through their parents' divorces and saw the legal system divide and destroy their families. Many of these people are afraid of using lawyers for family problems. They are demanding another process. Some will embrace the collaborative model, others will not.
BTW, a friend of mine (a lawyer) on the West coast (FL) spent $80K on his no-children Collaborative divorce. The Collaborative process gives the un-monied, divorce resistant spouse a huge advantage. My friend was the monied spouse who wanted out. His wife was able to drag things out until he couldn't take it anymore and caved - on everything.
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